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Ok there has been some commentary about some Djs in another thread so I thought I’d create a thread to discuss views and opinions.

Clearly I dont want this to turn into a hate thread but equally lets not sanitize it too much and express opinions.

Djs and punters welcome.......

So I’ll start with a couple including me.

I reckon I’m pretty predictable, a decent mixer (especially cutting) can’t scratch for shit but, for me, my reputation as an old skool cat carries me a long way. Some will argue that I have been lucky with the gigs and get them more on reputation than skill. Some would also argue that I have well and truly outstayed my welcome. I do it for love not money and have never taken myself and the work too seriously. I believe this firstly accounts for my longevity and also has meant I’ve never scaled the great heights a la A-Style, Mark John, John Course etc.....I personally think if I’d made a career out of it my musical knowledge and my ‘ear’ for a good tune would have taken me a long way.

Any views on my critique?

OK now lets talk about DJS who trade strongly on image moreso than musical and /or technical credentials. Do we feel these Djs have a place (well silly question they clearly do cause they get booked often). Do we not pay them the kudos they deserve for harnessing their talents or do we feel affronted cause they are trading on talents that we feel have nothing to do with music...(I’m guessing there are many local vocal artists for example that may resent the success of Spice Girls and Pussycat Dolls whilst they struggle)

There are some opening comments - Feel free to add stuff....

B-Love

great thread bobby.
Firstly i think your self assesment is spot on however i think your now past your use by date so move on already you old bastard lol.

I use myself as an example, firstly to this day after djn for nearly 2 years (in clubs) i still feel a little bit uncomfortable being referred to as a DJ, to me there are ‘dj’s’ then there are ‘DJ’s’
I consider the likes of sef, simon sez, flagrant, a-style just to name a few to be real dj’s, they commit themselves to the art & dont need savy marketing & monthly professional photoshoots to make themselves viable in the club scene, they do so purely due to there skill level.

Like bobby, as corny as it may sound, i do this for the love of music, ive been asked on numerous occasion if id be interested in doing commercial contemporary rnb sets which i have flatly refused purely cause i dont like contemporary rnb, even with the prospect of some great money coming in, its never appealed to me. On a skill level, im nothing flash, i know my strengths & i know my weaknesses. However i know i’ve got a name for my diversity in music played, at anyone time i can jump from rock, to disco boogie, to soulful house, to new jack & to acid jazz or just concentrate on one of those genres, that is my strength & promoters from both rnb & house scenes acknowledge that, im sure they also know im not Dj Jazzy Jeff & cant flip pancakes while scratching vinyl & use my other hand to spin a basketball on one finger. For someone who isnt jazzy jeff, ive played at quite a few venues & played quite a few gigs & do so with a carefree attitude, at the end of the day im no artist, im playing other peoples music, if people dig the music i play (which obiviously they do as i wouldnt get gigs otherwise) thats great, at least 2 or 3 times a night when i play i get someone totally random saying they love my music selection, that in itself is worth more to me than the money i get out of it.

Obviously this thread has been brought upon the discussion of havana brown, its more or less fact its her savy marketing/management that has got her to where she is today as oppose to her abilities behind the console, does that make it right, is that fair?
Well i think fair play to her, she gets punters through the door, she has her own cd out, tours around the country & asia, now you cant have achieved that by being a shit dj, that is a fact, obviously she is doing something right. I bet you i could find you 20 bedroom djs in my area right now that are technically much better than her but the punters/promoters dont want to see them, heck i dont want to see them, id rather see havana. Ill be honest, at first i thought the whole havana brown thing was a joke, i heard her play & she was ordinary, she has come someway in changing my mind, i have great respect for the work that she has put into the marketing side of things & wish her great success with her cd. On the other side of the coin however there is another new female dj who has popped up recently & is the biggest havana brown wannabe its comical, not to mention she claims to be ‘Australias finest female dj’ after spinning for less than 1 year (like wtf), i think you know who im talking about, ive heard this chick play a couple of times & heard a funny story about her gig last night, its muppets like this i cant tolerate & have little respect for, i have not heard one positive thing about this particular dj & its times like this i feel for what i consider ‘bedroom djs’ as in this instance id rather see a bedroom dj than this so called ‘Australias finest female dj’.

Speaking on a macro level this is all a result of the digital revolution we have gone through in the last 10-15 years. Its been happening in the music buisness for generations, its been happening in the club scene for the last few years but is now as prevalent as it ever has been, i see it alot in the arts field too, heck it seems anyone who has a digital slr camera thinks they are a pro photographer, heck i know people who have photography businesses who are utter rubbish, probably couldnt even put a roll of film in a film camera & are the joke of the town amongst the real professional photographic community, however they still seem to be in business because of marketing & readily available & easy to use equipment, it just makes the rest of us work harder, which is a positive. IMO you have two choices you can whine & complain that so & so is getting successful even though they are rubbish or you can strive to be a better dj yourself.

its all about the manager and thats it, no skill is required aslong as u have a good manager
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but for me nuthing feels better then having ppl call u up for gigs
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it would drive me crazy if i couldnt get my own gigs and needed someone else to get them for me
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if i was running a massive night and some manager approached me with there dj and there dj had no skill, i wouldnt chuck em up and i wouldnt really care if they have djed for this or that person
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if the dj hasnt got any skill with mixing then i dont want no part in them
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asanka l’ll tell u one thing, the thing u do in that side room at seven takes more skill to drop the music u play in there then bowling in-swinging balls at ppl lol
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half of the djs i know couldnt do wat u do in that room bc they all need intro’s and shit like that
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ok about havana brown
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the only thing that pissed me off was that she represented VIC at those so called urban awards
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now who the fuck voted for her to do that, i would rather see someone who has a mad rep behind them and who has actually done something for our rnb scene in melb then someone who was a nobody
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i would loved to see ken walker, bobby love and even dj peril up there instead bc atleast there known
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ok well thats the only thing that bothered me about her, personally i dont rate her as a dj with mixing skills but she has a dope manager
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i remember back in the day when bobby was djing at prob one of melb;s best friday nites at warehouse
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bobby that 2-3am set was dope haha and i said to myself back then that i would one day be as good as him

THANK YOU FOR DROPING HAVANA BROWN IN THIS
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she is shit i watched her when she played in syd and my left nut sack can dj better than her pushing play does not make u a dj

xecutioner - 05 November 2008 01:16 PM

half of the djs i know couldnt do wat u do in that room bc they all need intro’s and shit like that

HEEEY!!! I’m working on it! LOL!

klasik i think we are getting into the days of some djs being big bc they cant mix or get there own work
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poppa its different for u bc ur still learning and that i can respect
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but others out there think there full on djs bc of the shit that promoters put in there heads

ah man i love this thread.... ok! so havana brown - ive said this before and all the props to her for having the marketing behind her, top manager, but for me she doesnt have the talent to back it up - shes an alright dj who can play the right songs to satisfy commercial crowds which works for her image but shes not a dj u expect to be touring regardless of how hot she is… if she had the talent to back it then her image would be a bonus. when she was in sydney, all the djs walked out of there cos they couldnt take it! all her tracks were set to the same bpm so she wouldnt have to touch the pitch, she’d hit play and if it didnt line up she cue it and wait for the nxt chorus - i heard parts of songs i never knew existed cos she went 3 or 4 minutes into em! oh and she played britney - gimme more 2x in her set… great common sense there! i remember downloading a mix just to see what she was like last year, a track was 115bpm then all of a sudden u hear a track that is 93bpm mix in at 115bpm! then all of a sudden it drops to 93bpm, hten again a track normally 128bpm mixes in then goes from 93bpm to 128bpm straight away… the mix had no flow, its like she picked her favourite top 40 tracks and stuck em together without considering speed or creating a mood from a mix..
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to say she is a dj, and australia’s #1 female dj, is a stretch… call her australia’s #1 female club entertainer then i got no probs, cos its a show she puts on that involves “djing” and dancing… i would accept that, but to call her australia’s #1 female dj because of her sellable image i feel is a slap in the face of other female djs who work hard on their craft like DJ D and Flygirl Tee… also her repping VIC at the UMA’s?!?! what a joke… no one in sydney knew who she was and SHE WAS THE ONLY PERSON BOO’ED AT THE UMA’s!!! as for being voted IT magazines top dj or whatever, i actually checked it out - its a mag dedicated to gay & lesbian lifestyle without being openly gay… their top 3 were havana, some random then mark dynamix… whoa… not one of the ITM top 50 in the top 3… thats hard to believe. honestly its not much of an achievement but to ppl who dont know and who want to make money off the image, fuck why not use it. if it gets her money and makes other ppl money, hell why not - if i was a promoter who solely cared bout making a buck, then id put her on but if i was a promoter who really cared bout the product that i promote, then id have a laugh at the idea of having her in my club. thats the thing, all the djs and some club promoters care about the music and what not, then theres some promoters who want to make money the best way possible and if it means putting a hot bitch up there in a mini skirt then fkn do it. all the power to her but to me shes an entertainer who just happens to dj, most djs are djs who entertain.
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now as for me, im not the most technical dj in the world but i got enough skill to back myself up, and promoters know im versatile in the style i play and also know i have a solid song selection. in the start, image may have helped me somewhat, i know some promoters were like “fuck lets put c-bu on cos he’ll bring bitches to the club”, but to me i didnt think that i just wanted to dj and i didnt care bout my image, i wanted the music and skill and creativity to talk for itself, and i honestly never thought id be doin what i do today, i just wanted to play music cos i loved it and maybe make some money off it, but ive gotten the opportunity to travel (for free lol) and dj at concerts and festivals - never thought that would happen. but now ive dj’ed in asia i know how important image is, more and more im getting asked for promo shots and i aint got shit, now ive had to look into getting some done but i feel uncomfortable bout it - unfortunately image is part of the industry now moreso, but in the end does it really matter? if i wasnt a dj id look at havana brown and be like “man shes hot… but she sucked ass”, others i would say “hes an ugly mfkr but damn hes a good dj"… seriously image is not all that important cos it will only get you noticed and give u an opportunity to build a rep, and if ur a shit dj despite ur good looks ur gonna end up with a rep as a shit dj. for havana she has built a good rep with clubbers and the commercial market to a point, but unfortunately her rep with the industry aint crash hot.

C-BU i like your comment on entertainer vs DJ. If we applied that to say the music biz and compared Pussycat Dolls vs Mariah Carey - Mariah (despite all her faults) has a flawless voice whereas pussycat dolls are (considered by some) wonderful entertainers but no-one would realistically rate their vocal talents. Both are successful with mass appeal and possibly to the same audience in some cases.

I can rationalise this viewpoint in the djing space. I love watching both Havana and Sef work and consider one an enertainer first and foremost and the other one both (in sefs case both on and off the decks - heheheh)

Remember this is not a hate on Havana thread - or a hate on anyone thread for that matter.

Also can I put to this group that some punters (the corp crowd for example) may consider turntablism an unnecessary feature of their saturday night out and a distraction to just playing accessible music. To them an entertainer like Havana is gold.

Lets look at Kaz James - He obviously has mass appeal with the ladies but not the mixing skills of a John Course - but is still highly successful in his field. Has even branched into production and stuff.

I personally repect Havana immensely for what she had done - and that is harnessing her assets and putting herself out there to be a massive success in what she does.

B-Love

oh another thing i have no respect for djs who have there club set already planned out on a piece of paper, this isnt directed at her but i have seen a few around aus who do this and its shocking to see
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i reckon the female djs in syd would be closer to australia’s no.1 female dj then anyone else in the country, they have been around alot longer and have skill on the decks and do get there own work
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“for havana she has built a good rep with clubbers and the commercial market to a point, but unfortunately her rep with the industry aint crash hot. “
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i would rather have the respect and mad rep from my fellow djs then from the nobodys out there who put garbage in ur brain making u think ur great which is why some ppl dont think that havana is all that good, i really dont think her career as a dj will become any bigger then wat it is right now unless she moves overseas, ive seen ppl like this come and go very quick in the last 16 years
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i hate to say it but i dont think shes a massive success yet, to me she still a noob in the scene and has a long way to go before she will be known as a mad dj who can rock any crowd
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there are plenty of djs who have djed overseas and who have djed for rnb/hip hop acts who have being down here before
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the UMA’s thing still troubles me tho and kinda makes me embarressed to be a dj from vic, sorry but thats how i feel

im not hating on havana brown just her skill when people say she is the best feel dj its a slap in the face to dj’s like dj d who ranked 6 in the dmc’s guys divison (i dont think there is a girl divison) and fly girl tee who is also a female dj that dj’s blends tracks beat mixes etc, as c-bu we all didnt know who she was wen she was voted for uma’s and then to watch her in syd yes she is hot but dj skills i didnt see any, i also herd parts in songs i had neva herd b4 and as it was fading out she would start a new track.
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there are soo many dj’s without managers who get by on pure skill, if djing was ab out image everyone would of laughed at rectangle, a-track and many others when they enterd the dmc’s but they diddnt their skillz spoke for them, the best example of image no talent is anna kornikova. nuff said

KLASIK.1 - 06 November 2008 06:47 AM

the best example of image no talent is anna kornikova. nuff said

Can’t argue with you here bro....I fukn hate Kornikova cause she marginallised the art of playing Tennis (would have still done her though-lol) - But there was no disputing her popularity.

Also agree with comments on DJ D - The Aus R&B;best female DJ I’ve heard.

With the whole Managers thing - if you could get a manager to rep you if that would increase your exposure, the number of gigs you could get and your hourly rate wouldn’t you do it.. (I can’t really answer this question as DJing is not my sole source of income but if it was I’d probably answer ‘yes’)

Great thread. Would love to here from Ken Walker and Simon Sez and also from punters out there.....

And Havana (or Vince) if your reading this jump on board - would greatly value your insight.

B-Love

I had no idea who havana brown was (heard the name before). Just google image searched her and o...m...g.

I’d pay to see her. lol. She’s hot shit.

I’ve only really heard one female turntablist, and that was DJ D. I thought she was brilliant. I also think she’s hot too. lol.

I’m not dissing the guy or anything, but can someone tell me how Nino Brown has made such a big name for himself? Personally, i’m far from a fan, i just want to know who is, and what they see in him?

dj d is hot but married :(

Yeah i know, i already did my research. :(

well like i said, if idiot promoters out there didnt feed all this crap into havana browns head then this topic wouldnt of come up
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if ur gonna promote someone as being number in this or that then they need to back it up with something
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as for the manager thing, i had one for 3 months
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it was good that i got extra gigs here and there but the issue was the money, i found out that my manager was taking home more then he should of
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the use of a manager is to get u out there and to get u more money right?
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so wats the use of getting payed more for djing when ur manager takes out a fee
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basically ur still getting payed the same as u where before
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also i got to the stage where it drove me nuts bc i couldnt get any gigs myself bc of the manager
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like i said there is nuthing better then promoters coming up to u for the gigs
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i hate to say it but MOST of the djs who have managers will be useless witout there managers if they left
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its just annoying that these fucken managers are turning djing into a image scene
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next thing u know where gonna have gay programs like “australia’s next supermodel dj” how emberrassing