Grooveon Forums

B-Love - 20 October 2009 11:38 AM

I used to be one of ‘them’ (I was a member of a migrant family who arrived 40 years ago seeking a better life in a land of opportunity). And Australia has delivered in spades. I have a house a job a family of my own but somewhere along the line I went from ‘them’ to ‘us’. Sure I still empathise with ‘them’ and can see why ‘they’ would want to come to this magnificent country so ‘they’ can enjoy the life that ‘we’ do. But I’ve now become protective of ‘we’ have. And this protective attitude has me unfairly and ignorantly scrutinising the impact ‘they’ may have on ‘my’ way of life. Will the value of ‘my’ property be affected. Are my train lines going to be safe. And what about the schools my children attend.

All very irrational, all very racist and all the stuff I myself faced when I arrived.

I probably haven’t articulated very well and this is my dilemma. I feel ashamed at my ignorance but sadly expect I am not isolated in my ignorance and my views.


B-Love

Ive refrained from commenting on this topic for a few reasons
1) i just cant form an honest opinion
2) im scared that my opinion is a poor reflection of what i have become
3) Its an issue a lot deeper to home given the nationality & background of the people on the boat.

Bobby, i actually echo your sentiments as above & i do feel bad for it, even more so given that the people on that boat are also from where my blood line begins & a country i hold great ties with (even though i was born here).

I honestly cant respond to this issue.

Due to my immediate family’s history, and my extended family’s current situation with regards to being deprived of human rights, i find it really hard to comprehend how anyone can stick their flag on a piece of land, and tell everyone else to get lost.

That said, i can understand the flipside. There’s no doubt that people play the refugee card to get in and abuse the system.

B-Love & Asanka:

It’s not that we don’t also think of these things. Bobby I think you hit the nail on the head, it’s about protecting what you have. Especially since your family (if anything like mine) sacraficed a lot to get here. Your perspective is one of self-preservation not bigotry. There’s a massive difference.

As I’ve said before - what bugs me is the attitude amongst some Australians. I can’t get my head around it because I just fail to see what makes me better or more entitled than any other human being to basic human rights or a decent standard of living. I’m lucky not more deserving - again, a massive difference.

But I’ve now become protective of ‘we’ have. And this protective attitude has me unfairly and ignorantly scrutinising the impact ‘they’ may have on ‘my’ way of life. Will the value of ‘my’ property be affected. Are my train lines going to be safe. And what about the schools my children attend.

I agree that this is something that many members of the public think and are concerned about. What irritates me about the general public’s perception that it’s one’s race that dictates these things… again an issue that’s come about largely due to the media.

Looking at the south East, because this is the area i know best, shit train lines, falling land values, and a general bad reputation is not a product of the minority groups that are there. Cranbourne, Dandenong, Pakenham, Noble Park.... the Cranbourne/Pakenham train line are inhabited by deadbeat white families as well as recently arrived immigrants. Yet it’s probably these same lower socio-economic families that are writing in to the Herald-Sun complaining about the new arrivals, choosing to ignore the trouble that has been perpetuated by their own families and neighbours.

An interesting fact, from the Australian Bureau of Statistics - i have the link to this article but it wont let me post it properly on here.

- At 30 June 2008, Australia was the country of birth recorded by 80% (22,076) of all prisoners (sentenced and unsentenced).

This was followed by New Zealand (3% or 757 prisoners), Vietnam (2% or 684) and the United Kingdom and Ireland (2% or 636).

And also, this research paper (http://eprints.vu.edu.au/945/1/FinalVersionLGAethnic.pdf) about the impact of ethnicity on crime, which found statistically, but obviously does not take into acount every variable possible, that:

•New arrivals are not committing the crime but tend to ‘arrive to’ already disadvantaged and crime-ridden areas
•Crime does not decrease with the decision to become a citizen rather a third variable such as increasing age contributes to lower crime as well as to greater citizenship
•Younger people in the general Australian population tend to commit more crimes; new arrivals also tend to be younger and are therefore as equally crime prone as other young people

And this is publicly available information…

I can understand peoples points of views and can very much sense this is a sensitive topic. But I’m still going to be honest with my stance!

I can understand people wanting to protect what they have and what has been provided and worked hard for etc...the ‘we don’t want your here’ attitude is more based on self than actually not wanting to help...its protection of what we know and what belongs to ‘us’.

But, just knowing what I would do and what I know my father would do to keep his family happy and protected I can’t feel good about doing that to other peoples families. These people on the boats who have travelled soo far are just wanting an opportunity to have a safe life.

It is not their fault of how they came to this stage of desperacy and I can see that it may look like a threat from what could become an ‘invasion’ of sorts. But just feel if we think from just our heads- and exclude all feelings we can loose all sense of what matters in life- the situation at hand then becomes an ‘issue’ not people..and I just can’t accept we will allow others to suffer on our shores when we live in vibrancy.

Pollitically I can understand they want to put a ‘program’ in place or some sort of form filling criteria to monitor and observe and financially it is a stretch for Australia and we don’t want to loose our way of life...but this is not a good enough reason, for me, to not accept others into this country when they have not seen what we have and how we live- they have just been told this is a safe place.
And what if we pull our socks up just a little more- we could really help these PEOPLE.

What are we really saying about ourselves here?

I dont agree with the protecting what we have thing.

My main beef with this issue is people spending years getting rejected and still trying through legal methods to migrate to Australia. From personal experience alot of people i know from Karachi have been rejected or their claims have been delayed etc.

I find it very difficult to understand how boats coming here and people claiming to be asylum seekers get into the country when quite a few get rejected by the fact that that proceeded their claims through legal means.

The other side issue which i am also amazed at is the large amount of Indian students in Australia....are you telling me all these people are here to study?. Is the Australian government so naive to realize this. I have spoken to quite a few of my Indian friends and many of them have said all people do is get fake bank statements and other dodgey documents freely available to be obtained for the right price in India/Pakistan and then they come here and study.

Sure there are quite a few people studying for real and honestly but there is alot of dodgeyness as well.

Ive side tracked a bit but i think Australias whole migration system needs a good hard review because there are many loopholes.

Should i tell my family friend who wishes to migrate here because of problems to minorities in Pakistan should i tell him to stop applying legaly and go and get some forged documents to make him look like a skilled person so he and his family can migrate here?

2045RadicalMan - 21 October 2009 10:31 AM

Should i tell my family friend who wishes to migrate here because of problems to minorities in Pakistan should i tell him to stop applying legaly and go and get some forged documents to make him look like a skilled person so he and his family can migrate here?

Hmmm… well that depends. What matters to you most? Your friend or following the rules? It’s a no brainer for me!

Just one observation.

Why was the Howard Governments policies changed.

As i recall. Want there a system where Asylum seekers were taken to Christmas Island and assessed. Once individuals were determined to be legit asylum seekers. Then they were given Temporary Protection Visa until the point where the situation improves in the country they came from they can be sent back and be repatriated to their country.

I still think this was the best solution.

I believe that because the laws have been softened the boats to Australia have increased.

With this policy, everyone wins. People who are fleeing countries because they are in danger can get protection and return once the situation gets better. And people can come to Australia by applying thru legal means as well.

2045RadicalMan - 21 October 2009 10:06 PM

I believe that because the laws have been softened the boats to Australia have increased.

This sentence just stuck out like a nutsack on a ballerina. I’m not saying this is where you’re coming from… but it just occurred to me, that maybe.... PART of the attitude problem people have with this issue is ENTIRELY MISDIRECTED. Any gripes with our Government and its policies or lack thereof should never be taken out on these poor people just to prove a point or cover up our own inefficiencies.

How is the sentence stuck out.

Im just watching Parliament Live on Sky News...(which makes me feel sad lol i need a job) but Malcolm Turnbull has a point. When the Howard Government was in charge there were on average 3 or 4 boats per year. And every time a boat arrived. Julia Gillard who was then in Opposition was criticizing the government saying every boat that arrives is another policy failure for the Howard Government. But since the Rudd Government has taken over there have been 43 boats arriving in Australia so wouldn’t that equate to 43 policy failures for the Rudd Government.

No one is taking this out on poor people. Like i mentioned the Howard Government had temporary protection visas in place for true asylum seekers after they had been processed. But the laws have to be strict because of the People smuggling trade.

I don’t think you can attribute those numbers solely to Australia’s management of asylum seekers. The increase could very well be due to the fact that situations all over the world are worsening.

Also, we are having 2 very different discussions here. You are talking about the Government/policy. I am talking about the public. There are only so many reasons people have reacted the way they have. So far in this thread we’ve managed to determine they’re either:

1. Highly misinformed
2. Frustrated with our Goverment
3. Afraid of change
4. Posess a sense of entitlement
5. Racist

I guess im fustrated with Government hehe

Boat issues aside at least migrants have access to centrelink benefits/training under the new laws.